tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post5487864560269937851..comments2023-10-27T20:27:57.900-04:00Comments on Kid Dynamite's World: The Death of Personal ResponsibilityKid Dynamitehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17475987512856310577noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-18616020345562733582010-06-24T20:47:07.750-04:002010-06-24T20:47:07.750-04:00huh anon? the lottery aspect WAS the moral hazard...huh anon? the lottery aspect WAS the moral hazard. and it WAS proposing a policy - not just proposing it, but enacting it.<br /><br />you are more than welcome to favor crap like this - and i can only promise you that you'll disagree with my views if you think that paying people to do shit they are supposed to do anyway is a good idea.Kid Dynamitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17475987512856310577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-75283595170412601502010-06-24T19:51:39.243-04:002010-06-24T19:51:39.243-04:00Sorry Kid, dumb rant.
The study just tried to see...Sorry Kid, dumb rant.<br /><br />The study just tried to see if incentives would have an affect. It wasn't proposing a policy. <br /><br />The lottery aspect was meant to solve the moral hazard. It probably does, too.<br /><br />Good to know you value ideology over pragmatism and evidence -- Do you invest that way too or is that sort of behaviour only good for running a country?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-76315304324993027492010-06-24T12:39:42.644-04:002010-06-24T12:39:42.644-04:00An alternative to creating incentives or disincent...An alternative to creating incentives or disincentives is to simply identify non-compliant patients and allow insurance companies to take life insurance policies on them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-76202343826070330862010-06-19T11:15:18.966-04:002010-06-19T11:15:18.966-04:00Absolutely loved your post - it sure hit home for ...Absolutely loved your post - it sure hit home for me! I'm diabetic, and if I don't take my insulin, not only will I die, but it will be a long, slow, painful death, leaving behind my two-year old. I do see plenty of diabetics die, however. And most of those have bitched about being diabetic the whole way out. I believe that people inherently NEED something to whine about. They have to whine about their disease, the cost, how unfair it is... blah blah blah. Get over it. Take care of your business. Simple, take care of it. No one else can manage your finances, your health, your education but YOU - and if you're too stupid to do it, you're a darwin award.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-12108321609649342982010-06-18T09:48:40.110-04:002010-06-18T09:48:40.110-04:00fasteddie - really? you're gonna fire me up on...fasteddie - really? you're gonna fire me up on friday morning? ok - i'll bite:<br /><br />of course i understand the economics of it - i explained that in the third paragraph of the article.<br /><br />what the economics don't take into account is the effect of the moral hazard of this nonsense. <br /><br />See, when you pay one idiot to do something they should do anyway, then all the other idiots want to get paid for it also... and the downward spiral exacerbates.<br /><br />and where do you draw the line? as the NY Times commenter noted:<br /><br />""Why don't we pay people not to be criminals requiring incarceration? Why don't we pay people to not do drugs? Why don't we pay people not to have more than one child? Why don't we pay people to stay in their own country instead of coming here illegally?"<br /><br />sometimes people need to do the right thing without being coddled or rewarded for it. and if they aren't they should be punished. DISincentive, not incentive.Kid Dynamitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17475987512856310577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-35182526173640898402010-06-18T09:38:32.952-04:002010-06-18T09:38:32.952-04:00your "morality" argument is getting in t...your "morality" argument is getting in the way of simple economics. If these folks don't take their medicine, the cost of treatment GOES UP. If these folks are among the 45% insured by the government ( medicare/medicaid/Veterans/Gov. Employees and their dependents ) then these folks not taking their meds is COSTING YOU MONEY. <br /><br />Look at the situation without assigning "blame" or being judgemental. <br /><br />1) If people don't take their meds, COSTS GO UP.<br />2) Finding a way to get them to take their meds will make costs go DOWN.<br />3) Adding "prizes" gets folks to take their meds for a very small extra cost with no extra regulation.<br /><br />If you quit trying to be indignant about it, you would see that the problem has been solved very cheaply. At a cost of a few raffle prizes, lots of folks took their meds better and made costs go DOWN. How is this not a "win"?<br /><br />Quit trying to force your moral values on people. Step back and see it for what it is - a problem with a cheap and effective solution.fasteddienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-67834569903477726932010-06-17T22:39:03.513-04:002010-06-17T22:39:03.513-04:00Let's not forget personal responsibility for m...Let's not forget personal responsibility for mortgage brokers who push loans on people who clearly cannot afford them. Or pharmaceutical reps who push ailments for pills they have for sale to people who are not sick. Personal responsibility only works if everyone is willing to do it.<br /><br />And..not than I am a fan of the paid pill pushing thing. But consider it from their perspective for a second. If you are very poor, a bit of money makes things a better. Better than being well just so you can go on living poor.milesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-5644843385966674842010-06-17T10:34:23.581-04:002010-06-17T10:34:23.581-04:00KD -
You have to check out psychological motivati...KD - <br />You have to check out psychological motivation research:<br />The biggest problem with this program is not paying idiots to take their meds - the problem is when the program stops. Once the motivation ($) is removed, we know the dummies that needed the external motivation will stop taking their meds. The bigger problem is a new group of dummies will emerge that will no longer be motivated to take meds because the external motivator ($) is removed. This program creates a group of “new dummies” who will no longer be intrinsically motivated…the program will destroy the motivation of taking meds for the sake of health. So once this program ends, we can all pay for even more idiots that don’t take their prescribed medication. <br />While we are at it…can we motivate young urban minority girls to not take birth control and have more babies? <br />-Mrs Big ShowAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-27172430017728475672010-06-16T16:14:42.035-04:002010-06-16T16:14:42.035-04:00anon, i absolutely understand what you are saying....anon, i absolutely understand what you are saying.. but there's a big difference between having to incentivize someone to do something they are already incentivized to do, and other welfare examples. Some people don't have the means to earn money for food - so welfare programs take care of them. But not having the means to remember your pills is not a cost that should be borne by society.<br /><br />the point about people who have nothing left to lose is spot on - but most people are not in the "nothing left to lose" camp. an earlier commenter said "take away their cable tv"... simple things like that - that seem Orwellian and intrusive... practical? maybe not. but philosophically reasonable? absolutely.<br /><br />the "it's a lot less costly to pay them off" argument collapses when everyone decides that they want to be paid off too.. Moral hazard (or what i referred to as Tragedy of the Commons, even though it's not really TotC)Kid Dynamitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17475987512856310577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-51096505186442464932010-06-16T16:02:03.879-04:002010-06-16T16:02:03.879-04:00@KD - I think paying people to take pills - just l...@KD - I think paying people to take pills - just like paying women not to have children - is exactly like welfare but on a smaller scale. We think it's a lower cost to pay these people than deal with the consequences of what we consider inappropriate behavior.<br /><br />My other point is that people can talk about disincentives and darwinistic solutions all they want, but until we as a society are ready to deal with people who have nothing to lose, it's probably going to be a lot less costly to society just to pay them off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-82993892358977517002010-06-15T18:26:35.408-04:002010-06-15T18:26:35.408-04:00Great rant!
It's a tough one indeed. This ar...Great rant!<br /><br />It's a tough one indeed. This area is always a mix of things. <br /><br />Consider the avtivities of running/jogging and rock climbing. Clearly both hold long term benefits health wise, yet both are leading causes of orthopedic surgery repairs. Knees, ankles, wrists, you get the idea. Do we incentivize for the activity to cut down on health care costs or do we disincentivize the activity due to the enormous costs os surgery and recovery therapy? A mix? How is that figured out?<br /><br />See, it's a mess.EconomicDisconnecthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02802078645713106743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-73707832994424970672010-06-15T14:36:46.938-04:002010-06-15T14:36:46.938-04:00@Daniel:
Right on. Public health is a "whate...@Daniel:<br /><br />Right on. Public health is a "whatever works" area, up to and including quarantine and involuntary hospitalization.If incentives produce a net savings and control contagious disease, I say yee-ha.<br /><br />TZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-24234527945947398912010-06-15T14:30:18.635-04:002010-06-15T14:30:18.635-04:00anon@1:42pm - i was with you in your first parag...anon@1:42pm - i was with you in your first paragraph, but i don't think the second paragraph is the logical conclusion. paying people to take pills is not at all the same as providing welfare and social security. <br /><br />most people are in favor of some sort of safety net, and guess what - healthcare to provide the pills for the people who need them is that safety net. if they don't want to take them, at some point we have to turn to a more darwinistic solution. since we know that's not practical, disincentives can absolutely work - and there's nothing wrong with making them harshKid Dynamitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17475987512856310577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-79914611533852682882010-06-15T13:53:46.509-04:002010-06-15T13:53:46.509-04:00Following on to anon of the last post, the people ...Following on to anon of the last post, the people who can will always pay for the people who can't. This is sort of, on a very basic level, what the republican party USED to try and change. Because they had the wealth and the power and didn't want to share with people that couldn't or wouldn't "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps." I just channeled my father there for a second, he of the Republican ideals, never gave a dime in charity to anyone except the Catholic Church and was baffled his entire life as to why people weren't and didn't behave like he did. But I digress. In San Francisco, public health officials, in cases of Tuberculosis, have to pay visits to certain folks and watch them take the antibiotics to make sure that they didn't spread the disease. TB being particularly contagious. One would think having TB would be all that it would take to incent one to take the medicine to kill it. One would be wrong.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018793399599951413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-57245195361852935752010-06-15T13:42:55.394-04:002010-06-15T13:42:55.394-04:00Enjoyed your column, but I've had this argumen...Enjoyed your column, but I've had this argument (in various and sundry forms) with my father, and I think you are missing the point.<br /><br />The point is that a certain segment of population can't be incentivized or disincentivized. So the question for society is what to do with them? We have chosen (for many years now) to pay them off. That's what the social safety net is all about and that's why people can manipulate the system. And really - it is a pay-off, because we are basically paying these people to stay (as much as possible) out of our consciousness and lifestyle.<br /><br />Okay - let's stop the payoffs. In addition to stopping paying people to take pills, we'd have to stop welfare and unemployment insurance and social security and stop making nice prisons and what-not. Then what? What does society do with these people who have nothing to eat and nowhere to sleep and nothing to lose in case they do see something they want?<br /><br />Yes, in a perfect world, people would act best for themselves and for society. I for one would enjoy moving there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-53796059570480192142010-06-15T12:04:51.017-04:002010-06-15T12:04:51.017-04:00i saw a bumper sticker once that said:
"too ...i saw a bumper sticker once that said:<br /><br />"too bad stupidity isn't painful."<br /><br />enough said.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-50394795784855471432010-06-15T11:00:24.658-04:002010-06-15T11:00:24.658-04:00I believe that these are the same folks that took ...I believe that these are the same folks that took out loans (mortgages) they could not afford! Unbelievable.schtoonkmeyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-65895005052260790542010-06-15T09:18:58.190-04:002010-06-15T09:18:58.190-04:00Great post. You know I'm there.Great post. You know I'm there.Yangabangahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602946300256374843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-86376228051602470572010-06-15T09:06:56.987-04:002010-06-15T09:06:56.987-04:00Death of personal responsibility has been occurrin...Death of personal responsibility has been occurring for a long time. See: Law, Tort. Somebody else is always responsible for whatever it is that is bad that has happened to me. An attorney is ready and waiting to help.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-22733338647827438792010-06-15T07:39:49.316-04:002010-06-15T07:39:49.316-04:00Kid, your stuff is truly gritty. Can't say I&#...Kid, your stuff is truly gritty. Can't say I've seen a style this fresh in a bit, and it's def a breath of freshness...<br /><br />Let 'em die... If they can't remember the medicine they deserve a painful farewell. <br /><br />Thanks for bringing something to the stage that a guy who scours the net for substance can tolerate.<br /><br />Check out my stuff too if you'd like.<br /><br />PeaceTraderRobhttp://www.diamondslice.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-50313104792087110652010-06-15T00:59:03.283-04:002010-06-15T00:59:03.283-04:00Shut off their cable TV for a day for each pill th...Shut off their cable TV for a day for each pill they skip. Works across all income levels and avoids fining people in poverty (yes, they have cable too).Stevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-1004833374272368122010-06-15T00:58:20.528-04:002010-06-15T00:58:20.528-04:00KD- interesting article and great subsequent comme...KD- interesting article and great subsequent commentary. <br /><br />While the "disincentives" approach would ultimately, IMHO, be the smartest approach and most effective method, the people in charge of making these decisions don't have the stones (or woman-stones) to sound like the bad guy/girl for suggesting these ideas (ideas that increase national welfare via a negative feedback). Not being able to show "tough love" in this country will be a major factor in the demise of it (when the crutches break, people fall). It is too expensive to accommodate mass ignorance - whether it is in the realm of personal finance, medicine, etc. The only way to teach people to be responsible in the LONG-RUN is to have negative consequences for ignorant actions rather than a piece of cheese for completing a one-path, linear maze which could get boring after a while (e.g. let's say someone doesn't win the "med lottery" in a few months - the will probably lose interest which defeats the purpose of the exercise; the incentives, over time, don't become "enough").PRSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-55983412850240158132010-06-15T00:27:16.171-04:002010-06-15T00:27:16.171-04:00Free vodka nips for alcoholic homeless to take the...Free vodka nips for alcoholic homeless to take their TB meds? Sure! Free clean needles to IV drug users? HMO premium discounts for gym memberships or weight watchers? Free smoking cessation programs -- free means payment.<br /><br />Natural selection happens at the species level also. What happens to a species that can't get its collective shit together?Transor Znoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-11306201754606558512010-06-15T00:11:21.260-04:002010-06-15T00:11:21.260-04:00What could be a bigger incentive than living. Or,...What could be a bigger incentive than living. Or, conversely, a bigger disincentive than DYING!!!!Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03572148982033990206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14963913.post-92194541634438769372010-06-14T23:31:36.169-04:002010-06-14T23:31:36.169-04:00Free means you get what you pay for.
Sorry.
No ...Free means you get what you pay for.<br /><br />Sorry. <br /><br />No free health care.<br /><br /><br />~~vlcccashmachine~~Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com